Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. But now, P320 is the subject. 3. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. First off, no joke on me. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Liberal, Conservative. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. JTF-2 is the only unit in. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. three changes to the original design. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. Thats the same. PDs are dropping them from contracts. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. No, it doesnt. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). But Shatner? The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Thats SIGs term for a recall. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Give me a break. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Period. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Too Many Accidents The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. About $300. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. They didnt have to, but did. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. You have entered an incorrect email address! But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. I dont own a P320. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Legal Penalties. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. A shame but then no one was hurt. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. They are being replaced with Glocks. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. But breaking news here, skippy. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. . Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. It has been flawless so far. Would you? I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Whether or not the suits have merit. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. But this time, the sound bites used were different. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Wont last!. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Plastic crap! Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Thats deflecting from the real issue. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. . Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. He was told to shoot two rounds. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. My gun just went off! DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. ALL OF THEM. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. 01:10. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. D. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck.